Swift & Change Able - Latest comments on Graduation Rates: Are The Gloves Off?

In response to: Graduation Rates: Are The Gloves Off?

Charlie [Member] — Wed, 02 Apr 2008 12:48:24 +0000

John -

What "sanctions" do you want the feds to give up?

What would "real accountability" be according to you?

In response to: Graduation Rates: Are The Gloves Off?

john thompson [Visitor] — Wed, 02 Apr 2008 02:20:53 +0000

Yeah, there are virtually no consequences meaning that this panic that produced test prep etc. was unnecessary. People are strange. And education is a people business.

I cautiously supported NCLB in the spirit of compromise after reading Al Shanker for years. I knew that even the bluff that was NCLB accountability would be destructive, but I had no idea of how bad it would be.

So why not learn the lesson of NCLB and give up the few little sanctions in return to real comprehensive accountability?

My assumption is that we need to face the hard truth that the graduation rate is dropping while we blog. Given the economic decline of the last few weeks, we should assume that students will be damaged by the economic decline and that more will fail to graduate. IN MY EXPERIENCE, all forms of educational dysfunction increase dramatically while the economists are trying to nail down whether we're in a recession. So if I were promoting NCLB, I'd anticipate two more years of stagnant student performance. Add that onto the very very bad year suffered by NCLB supporters, and I'd be looking for a way out of this mess.

Why not gamble on decision-making that uses honest data?

In response to: Graduation Rates: Are The Gloves Off?

Charlie [Member] — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 21:52:58 +0000

John - As you know from reading my site, THERE ARE VIRTUALLY NO CONSEQUENCES required under federal law for not meeting AYP. Which I know won't stop Jim Ryan from writing his book. But since you're a loyal reader, I know you know better. Thanks as always for your comments.

In response to: Graduation Rates: Are The Gloves Off?

john thompson [Visitor] — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 21:21:34 +0000

Big Swifty,

So if you are against enabling and demoguaging about the staus quo, we could make a quick deal. Replace the current accountability system and the types of accountability that are being considered for NCLB II with the disinfectant of sunshine for both dropout prevention and increasing student performance.

The excellent Slate article makes essentially the same proposal. Use AYP for rankings as opposed to punitive measures. I've always advocated something that's almost the same, but his approach is better. When I say use testing for diagnostic purposes, I sound too much like a teacher, but putting that same approach in a ranking type format would sound tougher.

If you don't want some sort of compromise, then we progressivives can continue to fight each other, but I'd like different terms. Since NCLB accountability is the status quo, you should take the title of enabler and let us assume the role of demaguages.

In response to: Graduation Rates: Are The Gloves Off?

Sherman Dorn [Visitor] — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 18:57:34 +0000

The devil's in the details here. Florida has a longitudinal rate, but there are various ways in which the official method artificially inflates the reported graduation statistic: removing adult-ed (dropout-to-GED-program) transfers from the school's responsibility; adding GEDs to the diplomas that the school is credited for; and moving students retained in a grade to a later cohort. The first two inflate the rate no matter how you calculate it, and the third artificially inflates the four-year measure.

Greene's and Swanson's measures each have some problems; my preferred one is Rob Warren's, though his method is only usable at the state level.